Oh yes.
This has made my day.
Finally, sense might prevail with New Zealand’s insane right-hand-turn rule.
Right-hand rule not the right rule
The notorious right hand rule should be consigned to the dustbin as a bad idea and if Australia can do it, so can we, says the Automobile Association.
New Zealand is the only country in the world with the right hand rule – if cars are turning they give way to all traffic not turning, and in all other situations, give way to traffic crossing or approaching from the right.
And just as I’ve said before:
Mr Noon said the rule was confusing for the more than 1 million tourists that visited New Zealand each year and New Zealanders travelling all over the planet.
The rule was responsible for a lot of side impact accidents, where the driver was not well protected.
One newspaper survey showed 20 percent of drivers did not observe it, he said.
“In most cases he who is bravest goes first and gets across.”, said Stephen Joyce
Absolutely true. I’ve found this to be even more the case since purchasing a vehicle with a bull-bar. Now I always have right of way.
Transport Minister Stephen Joyce, what a man. A man of reason, insight, common sense, and logic.
The status-quo is utter, complete chaos, and must be ended.
If anyone still need convincing, see my scientific explanation from a while back.
Well done to the AA (equivalent to RACV etc, not the alcoholics’ group) and Stephen Joyce.
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David said
This insanity must be stopped – the scientific evidence is irrefutable!
Perhaps we should organise a petition?
Grant said
Totally agree! But I’d like to know who was responsible for making the change to the current stupid law. But no, whoever it was will not be named and once again, a dumb law passed that we all pay for.
fushnchupsblog said
David, I think anything less than a protest march up Queen St would be selling the issue short.
clairzilla said
OMG how many near misses did I have in NZ? Crazy!
Squivy said
Thinking of recent trips to NZ …. it is time to give it a flick. Give way to the right rules (as in Europe) work ok when you drive on the right. The “intersection always give way to the right rule” in NZ needs bringing into line with other left side driving countries who acknowledge it is doesn’t always work and have either got rid of it or never adopted it.
Phil said
Be good to see that rule go. Now if kiwis could learn to use indicators BEFORE turning. Once they have mastered that, they can then begin learning to stay on the left side of the white line that marks the middle of the road. Now need to straddle it!!!!
barista said
Youse are lucky. We in Melbourne have the hook turn. To turn right, proceed into intersection and move LEFT. Wait until the lights change, and then turn right. First of course checking that no bastard behind you is running the lights.
That is what makes Victorian drivers unique. Doesn’t bother us to drive in a puddle of widdle.
Sydney taxi said
Fush, if that is in fact your real name, you’re wrong.
In Australia (and New Zealand), if you’re at a roundabout, give way to traffic from the right. In Australia (and New Zealand), if you’re at a t-intersection, give way to traffic from the right. Get the pattern? Give way to traffic coming from your right – because, normally, that’s the side of the car that you’re probably sitting in: it’s easier to see and let’s face it, if you get hit, you’re more likely to get hurt than if the other car hits the side of the car that you’re not sitting in. Easy. Give way to the right.
The bizarre thing is that, if you’re in Australia, the give way to the right rule goes out the window for just one situation: when you’re both turning. In New Zealand, it’s consistent and logical.
And think about it: the car that’s stuck in the middle of the road (turning right) has priority, thereby clearing the road for the other traffic. The other car (turning left) has pulled as far as practicable to the left to let opposing traffic pass.
Easy. Logical. Consistent. Give way to the right.
How did you guys manage to this wrong as well? There’s no shame in stealing the good ideas from across the Tasman.
Infinite wisdom said
Explains a lot about taxi drivers.
As drivers they don’t know the road rules.
The car turning right is crossing oncoming traffic.
Confusing for drivers turning left. going straight ahead and turning right.
as per your example.
Victoria got rid of this dangerous law years ago. But Hook turns multiplied.
BTW ‘give way to vehicles on your right’ does NOT apply to roundabouts.
The law states give way to vehicles that have already entered the roundabout.
ie ‘don’t hit anyone in the roundabout’
Don’t know how you determine this after the accident.
Dave said
Gotta agree with Sydney Taxi. When I did my defensive driving course about 30 years ago in NZ that’s exactly the way the instructor described it. If someone is gonna hit the drivers door you’d better give way to your right – after all every car has a driver. Guess the rental car companies can’t explain it the same way to the tourists.
Worthwhile adding that some busy in intersections are designed around the right hand rule. Glad I won’t be in Wellington in peak hour traffic if the rule is ever changed.
Infinite Wisdom said
But Dave, if the vehicle turning right does not try to run into the vehicle turning left but waits for the vehicle to complete its turn, no door will be run into.
Give way to the right still applies at unsigned cross roads but in Australia there are few of them.
Also vehicles in side streets cannot assume they can turn into traffic going 80km/h without suffering the consequences. Seems Kiwi’s lack of common sense makes them ideal taxi drivers by example.
Dave said
Infinite Wisdom, trouble with NZ is that the car turning right has some clown rearing up behind him at 80 km/h, so best it be able to turn right as soon as it can and get out the clown’s way (assuming there isn’t another clown coming head on at 80km/h).
Intersections are typically constructed so the the car turning left has enough room to give way, so it doesn’t get hit by the clown rearing up behind it.
Having lived in Sydney for the last four years the same problem doesn’t exist here – there are no right hand turns, so the car turning left always has right of way!. Problem solved in Sydney at least. As I said, glad I won’t be in Wellington if they change the laws
No disrespect to Ronald McDonald or circus clowns intended.
Infinite Wisdom said
Thanks Dave, from Sydney the City of No Right Turns. You are absoutely right.
In Melbourne, we got rid of the law that left turn vehicles gave way to right turning vehicles and the intersection accident rate declined considerably. Got rid of the uncertainty and confusion.
Surprisingly it did not lead to an increase in clowns running up the backside of cars waiting to turn right. Sydney intersections are more likely to be designed to accomodate right hand turns (where allowed), straight through traffic and left turn vehicles than in Melbourne where we allow cars to be parked almost to the traffic lights. BTW Sydney drivers are more curteous, lane aware and generally more alert than Mebourne meanderers.
Brian said
Ok lets do a deal..NZ gets rid of the dopey give way when turning left rule, and Australia/NSW gets its roundabout rules sorted….quote:
” Slow down as you approach a roundabout. You must give way to traffic already on the roundabout if there is a risk of collision. Enter the roundabout when there is a safe gap in the traffic”
This is just stupid ..no one obeys it, and causes far more dings and near misses than NZs give way when turning left rule..
Infinite Wisdom said
Brian while agreeing that the roundabout rules are somewhat arbitary, if the “Give way to the right” applied, as most motorists seem to think they do, we get the situation where everyone, waiting to enter the roundabout having someone on their right, waits. Seen it happen far too often. Someone has to break the impasse. Most roundabout accidents happen on multi-lane roundabouts and people changing lanes in the roundabout. Failure to indicate when exiting a roundabout is also a hazard. Roundabout rules, near misses are acceptable, dings are not. If you hit someone please explain how it happened.
The most practical rule is
” Slow down as you approach a roundabout. You must give way to traffic already on the roundabout if there is a risk of collision. Enter the roundabout when there is a safe gap in the traffic”
Squivy said
As a Sydneysider I am curious about the Melbourne Hook turn … is it legal or just a long established custom that all M’bournians know how to do. It gives me the heeby-geebies down yonder in Mexico (so I just take the tram anyway and watch the near misses!!).
Squivy said
Also … on giving way to the right … it is the rule in most parts of the world. The only bit of it that is not common (in other left driving countries) if the car turning right makes the car turning left give way (as in NZ).
As I and others have said, get rid of this quirk of having a give way to the right rule in a left-driving country (the issue doesn’t occur in “right driving and give way to the right countries” as it cannot happen) and then cowabunga, get people to use roundabouts properly (give way to the traffic on it, same in right driving places too) … and we could reduce the road toll. Am I dreaming???
Infinite Wisdom said
Squivy, not onlly are they legal, they are multiplying going from 6 to 16 inersections in Melbourne CBD and now up Clarendon St South melbourne. Seems designed to prevent trafic turning as the only turn lane has room for three cars at each light cycle, some wanting to turn left, some right.
Just love driving in Melbourne with these dangerous intersections.
Mark said
It’s not just a problem for tourists. I have lived here for 5 years and it seems like 50% or even 75% of the time that there are three drivers involved (one turning left, one right, one following the one turning left), everyone is confused. I doubt they’ve all been tourists. It leaves all the discretion with the person turning left who has to think for everyone. Insane. Not to mention how it slows down all traffic.
Hey, while I’m at it, some more NZ road nonsense: Every noticed how white dotted lines are painted around virtually every blind corner and over every blind crest in at least the North Island.
Then there’s the poorly designed freeways that no one knows how to drive on (when have you seen people enter/leave at freeway speed, let alone merge smoothly at speed).
And the insane roads around Auckland that go from 2 lanes to 4 lanes to 2 lanes to 4… even where there is enough land to make them consistently 4 lanes.
And did I mention the bus lane of the NW motorway that is narrower than the car lanes and goes nowhere?!
Myrtone said
“Give way to the right rules (as in Europe) work ok when you drive on the right.”
“As I and others have said, get rid of this quirk of having a give way to the right rule in a left-driving country (the issue doesn’t occur in “right driving and give way to the right countries” as it cannot happen)…”
Normally, in when you drive on the right, you yield oncoming traffic when navigating a left turn, however in Commonwealth Pennsylvia, USA, there is a driving custom (no basis in traffic laws) that almost mimicks a right side drivng version of NZ’s rule known as the Pittisburgh left. It’s where, if you in the first left turning vehicle, the opposing traffic (going straight or turning right) does not take precedence over you, instead, they wait and give permission, either by gesturing in the direction of the turn or even flashing their headlights. Since they don’t take precedence, you don’t need to yield.
It’s because a brief delay for the straight through or right turning vehicle can avoid a longer delay for the left turning vehicle and those blocked behind it.
Myrtone said
According to this news article, from 1976, the year before New Zealand introduced this rule, it already existed in not only in Victoria but also Tasmania.
John said
As a Sydneysider I am curious about the Melbourne Hook turn … is it legal or just a long established custom that all M’bournians know how to do.
As a kiwi who lived in melbourne for awhile this one really threw me until it was explained like so:
There are intersections where you can’t stop in the middle of the road to turn right as you would then be blocking the trams who run down the centre of the road from going through on their own light changes, so therefore you have to go to the left then move across the intersection as if you were coming from the cross road.
Makes perfectly logical sense when explained like that, but really does give you the shits big time when you first try it out!!!
Anyway, the hook turn is totally not relevant to the issue, which is that the roads are getting busyier, and people who drive are getting more impatient. We need to remove all intersections and replace them with round abouts and educate people on how to use them, then take away licenses from any one who can’t get it right.
Bingo, no more problems with the right hand turn, and a LOT less people allowed to drive.
Myrtone said
“As a Sydneysider I am curious about the Melbourne Hook turn … is it legal or just a long established custom that all M’bournians know how to do.”
It is mandatory at all intersections where a sign prescribes it. Centre turns across tram tracks are permitted in many suburban areas but delaying a tram is still not permitted. On six lane suburban roads, you may enter the tram lane to turn right if it is clear. If it is not, you wait in the adjacent lane or, if there is traffic behind you, make your turn indirectly. This means overshooting the intersection, making a U-turn and then turning left. When we had the left turn give way rule they still have in New Zealand, the idea behind it was to make it easier to turn right across tram tracks and help make right turns that would otherwise be effectively prohibited.
At busier intersections, waiting on track tracks to turn right would be undesirable because opportunities to wait without delaying a tram are hardly there. So other solutions such as hook turns are needed. Another solution is placing right turn lanes between the tram tracks as is found in Sheffield, England where trams returned in 1994.
By the way I now realise that all of the AA arguments to support the proposed changes to the give way rules… there’s something about them in right of reply on right of way from the sitting duck blog. There is also a podcast, the rule is mentioned in episode 159 Driving me crazy, the previous episode also mentions driving.
“New Zealand is the only country in the world with the right hand rule – if cars are turning they give way to all traffic not turning, and in all other situations, give way to traffic crossing or approaching from the right.”
There are multiple ways to put it and they never do it very well. With the current rule, one who is turning right has right of way over someone turning left who is arguably on the right, because the two vehicles are approaching 180 degrees apart.
“Mr Noon said the rule was confusing for the more than 1 million tourists that visited New Zealand each year and New Zealanders travelling all over the planet.”
Tourists have to be especially aware and careful. New Zealanders driving in the UK are going to have issues with their road rules, markings and driver behaviour.
” One newspaper survey showed 20 percent of drivers did not observe it, he said.”
But more than 20 percent of road users don’t stop for yellow lights or signal before they turn, so you could scrap those. On that basis, you should no longer be permitted to turn right on a red light in North America because a considerable portion of road users don’t stop before turning or give way to pedestrians.
A quote from the aforementioned podcast “As a country we are bloody awful drivers, the end, period.”